1 00:00:01,239 --> 00:00:06,399 {\an8}On a June morning in 2010, in a fine Georgian mansion over 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,518 {\an8}Merrion Square, the management 3 00:00:08,519 --> 00:00:12,360 {\an8}of Custom House Capital made their way to the first floor boardroom. 4 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:16,918 {\an8}They were gathering for the last installment of a team 5 00:00:16,919 --> 00:00:18,040 {\an8}building exercise. 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,558 {\an8}The management team was led by CHC's directors, Harry Cassidy, 7 00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:25,878 the Chief Executive, John White, 8 00:00:25,879 --> 00:00:28,519 the Investment Director, and John Mulholland, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,598 who had set up the firm with Cassidy a decade previously. 10 00:00:33,959 --> 00:00:37,080 Cassidy presented the analogy of a castle on a hill, 11 00:00:37,599 --> 00:00:40,279 a vision of what CHC would become. 12 00:00:41,319 --> 00:00:44,598 It was a cham. Cassidy's Castle on the Hill 13 00:00:44,599 --> 00:00:46,400 was more like pie in the sky. 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,800 The Office of the Financial Regulator, 15 00:00:51,959 --> 00:00:55,359 on which CHC depended for its licence to operate, 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:56,800 wanted to get rid of Cassidy. 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,319 It feared for the safety of funds that clients had entrusted to CHC. 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,639 The stuff going on in the background, 19 00:01:10,199 --> 00:01:15,480 Custom House Capital's dark secret was that it was stealing 20 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,440 from its client's accounts. 21 00:01:20,559 --> 00:01:27,760 (INTRIGUING MUSIC PLAYS) 22 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,759 REPORTER: Some of those who lost money in the collapse 23 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,079 of Custom House Capital in 2011 came to court for 24 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,239 today's sentencing. 25 00:02:01,559 --> 00:02:05,399 Judge Orla Crowe said she had read more than 200 victim impact 26 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,040 statements from former clients. 27 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:10,399 Most were hardworking people who had carefully put aside 28 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:11,519 money for their retirement. 29 00:02:12,199 --> 00:02:15,440 How did the central bank go into that company in 2009? 30 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,159 And those people were able to continue to do what they did. 31 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,238 I don't think our investment went bad because it was 32 00:02:20,239 --> 00:02:22,719 a bad investment. I think our investment went bad 33 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,199 because bad people took our money and did bad things with it. 34 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:28,519 It's kind shocking, really, when you think about it. 35 00:02:29,239 --> 00:02:32,399 I'd feel better if I'd been scammed by a fella on the 36 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:33,679 end of the phone. 37 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,518 The prosecution received victim impact statements 38 00:02:36,519 --> 00:02:40,958 from 197 people. Many of those who lost life savings 39 00:02:40,959 --> 00:02:42,399 they thought they had invested 40 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,279 for their retirement came to court for the sentence hearing. 41 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,318 What we had worked hard for all those decades was squandered 42 00:02:49,319 --> 00:02:50,319 by a handful of people. 43 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,519 Some of their husbands committed suicide. 44 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,279 Some people just gave up. 45 00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:02,120 I knew the life she'd lived and how hard she'd worked 46 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:03,680 and her health condition. 47 00:03:04,559 --> 00:03:07,639 And to say to her, Helga, all your money is gone 48 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,919 just down a black hole by a guy that you trusted with your life. 49 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,400 The first email I got off the guards, 50 00:03:17,239 --> 00:03:19,800 it was addressed to dear victim, and that hit me. 51 00:03:20,839 --> 00:03:22,120 Being called a victim. 52 00:03:22,519 --> 00:03:24,958 When you think about the scale of what was before us 53 00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:27,279 at the investigation stage, where there's potentially 54 00:03:27,879 --> 00:03:31,559 2,700 investors, tens of millions of euros misappropriated. 55 00:03:31,839 --> 00:03:34,598 The Book of Evidence alone ran into seven and a half 56 00:03:34,599 --> 00:03:35,599 thousand pages. 57 00:03:35,919 --> 00:03:39,360 {\an8}It was an absolute huge investigation. 58 00:03:44,839 --> 00:03:49,319 REPORTER: The new Dundrum town centre stands on an 18 acre site. 59 00:03:49,519 --> 00:03:52,519 The first phase has taken almost five years to complete, 60 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,518 and local people queued from early morning to get their 61 00:03:55,519 --> 00:03:56,759 first look inside. 62 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,759 I just want to see the shop, see all the nice things 63 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:00,919 that's in the shop. 64 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,360 At 10 o'clock, the waiting ended. 65 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,879 I never thought I could live to either see the luas 66 00:04:09,319 --> 00:04:13,239 or to see this centre. It's absolutely marvelous. 67 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,000 I had set up a business in 1995. 68 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:24,120 So by the time 2005 and 2006 came along. 69 00:04:24,319 --> 00:04:26,959 The country was singing. 70 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:33,318 The company was doing well, and I was in a position to decide 71 00:04:33,319 --> 00:04:34,598 what I wanted to do with that money. 72 00:04:34,599 --> 00:04:38,838 Was I going to go mad and buy an Aston Martin, 73 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,199 or would I be sensible and put it into a pension fund? 74 00:04:42,559 --> 00:04:46,000 So a pension fund is what I ended up doing. 75 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,598 The arrival of American multinationals had 76 00:04:50,599 --> 00:04:53,918 begun in a big way, and then things were moving 77 00:04:53,919 --> 00:04:56,999 forward, and they were moving forward most 78 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,120 clearly in the property area. 79 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,878 What was going on in Ireland at the stage was you buying 80 00:05:03,879 --> 00:05:06,518 something today and you were selling it a month later, 81 00:05:06,519 --> 00:05:08,959 30 % more than you bought it for, and all this carry on. 82 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,559 This morphed into a classic financial bubble, 83 00:05:12,959 --> 00:05:15,638 where I haven't taken part in the bubble, 84 00:05:15,639 --> 00:05:19,838 but my neighbour next door is now driving a spanking big new car, 85 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,719 and they're away on holidays half the time. 86 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,879 And my wife is looking at me saying, what's wrong with us? 87 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,919 It's because we're not in property. 88 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,080 Well, I had a pension adviser. 89 00:05:31,519 --> 00:05:36,399 Most of the property opportunities in Dublin, certainly, 90 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:37,838 a lot of them were taken up. 91 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,439 So he had said to me, there's this company has set up 92 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:46,918 called Custom House Capital, and they were looking at investing 93 00:05:46,919 --> 00:05:49,319 in property outside of Ireland. 94 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,119 TAPE: Established in 1997, Custom House Capital is one 95 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,319 of Ireland's most dynamic wealth management companies, 96 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,399 and currently manages over 1 billion euros on behalf 97 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:02,518 of clients. 98 00:06:02,519 --> 00:06:05,080 Their sales pitch was aggressive returns and growth. 99 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:06,559 That was the pitch. 100 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,040 So they went for that quite strongly, and it worked, 101 00:06:10,559 --> 00:06:12,279 and people were attracted by it. 102 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,119 My aunt was born in a city called Kiel in northern Germany. 103 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,119 It's on the Baltic. She was born in 1928. 104 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,319 The war broke out when she was 11 years old. 105 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,720 She lost her mother at 12 years of age in the back of a truck, 106 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,318 bombed out city. 107 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:35,120 Her father was quite elderly, so she became a carer for him. 108 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,639 My uncle, and he met this at that stage, 17-year-old beautiful girl. 109 00:06:40,239 --> 00:06:42,439 Her father accepted my uncle because he was Irish 110 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:43,638 rather than English. 111 00:06:43,639 --> 00:06:47,080 They married some years later and they rebuilt a little shop. 112 00:06:47,319 --> 00:06:50,238 And she worked in that shop for 50 years, six in in the morning 113 00:06:50,239 --> 00:06:51,720 'till six in the evening. 114 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,879 She loved Ireland, particularly Connemara. 115 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,720 So they sold their business, brought their money to Dublin, 116 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:01,838 put in the Guinness Mahan Bank, which was the place if you 117 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:03,080 had a lump sum at the time. 118 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:04,518 She met Harry Cassidy there. 119 00:07:04,519 --> 00:07:06,040 He was obviously dealt with her money. 120 00:07:07,239 --> 00:07:09,838 So he came from a business culture that would have been... 121 00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:12,198 probably, c avalier is probably the best term I could use 122 00:07:12,199 --> 00:07:14,318 to describe it. He came from Guinness and Mahon, 123 00:07:14,319 --> 00:07:15,400 which was Des Traynor, 124 00:07:15,519 --> 00:07:16,999 who was Charles Haughey's accountant, 125 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,319 and I think, Ansbacher Accounts and offshore money. 126 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,838 REPORTER: The afternoon, Sandra Kells of Guinness and 127 00:07:21,839 --> 00:07:24,359 Mahon Bank was explaining how they became imbriled 128 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,238 with the Pruner brothers, Fernando and Andreas, 129 00:07:27,239 --> 00:07:30,159 who ran an organised crime ring in Miami, Florida. 130 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,518 There was that business culture at the time that he'd 131 00:07:32,519 --> 00:07:33,559 sprung up out of as well. 132 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,399 He came in strong in the '70s and '80s. He was an ambitious guy. 133 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,278 He was known as a business development guy, 134 00:07:38,279 --> 00:07:40,959 not a technocrat, and that stood to him in those times. 135 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,319 The business was founded by my grandfather in 1949. 136 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,238 It was a drinks wholesale business, serving pubs and clubs 137 00:07:50,239 --> 00:07:51,639 and hotels in County Kildare. 138 00:07:51,879 --> 00:07:53,759 Both my dad and his brother 139 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,679 and my grandfather ran the business successfully 140 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:56,759 for a long number of years. 141 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:02,160 They had an accountant and Roy advised them to start planning for 142 00:08:02,279 --> 00:08:03,878 post-retirement or for the future. 143 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:08,040 Introduced them to Jamal Holland and Harry Cassidy. 144 00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:10,558 Harry was in Guinness and Mahon at the time, the bank, 145 00:08:10,559 --> 00:08:12,680 and some investments were made, obviously, 146 00:08:13,239 --> 00:08:15,519 and they grew quite well. 147 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,278 I was with the Investment Bank of Ireland. 148 00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:23,238 My husband also worked in the same institution, which, 149 00:08:23,239 --> 00:08:26,638 to quote the promo at the time, was the merchant banking arm 150 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:28,239 of the Bank of Ireland Group. 151 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,638 So that was the start of the relationship with Harry. 152 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:32,598 He was with the Investment Department for quite 153 00:08:32,599 --> 00:08:34,918 a few years, and then he left 154 00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:36,679 and he went to Guinness and Mahon. 155 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:39,317 To best my knowledge, he didn't have a college education. 156 00:08:39,318 --> 00:08:42,439 He did the Institute of Taxation exams and excelled at them 157 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:43,878 as far as I'm aware. 158 00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:46,238 But yeah, so he would have been straight out of school 159 00:08:46,239 --> 00:08:47,439 and into the bank. 160 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,159 He did have a great way with clients, 161 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,760 very good way with clients, and clients trusted them. 162 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,119 I had transferred funds that I had come into as a result 163 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,239 of the death of my husband. 164 00:08:58,599 --> 00:09:03,278 I transferred those to Guinness, Mahon under Harry's guidance, 165 00:09:03,279 --> 00:09:04,518 if you like. 166 00:09:04,519 --> 00:09:06,639 And you trusted him? Oh, implicitly. 167 00:09:06,879 --> 00:09:08,239 Implicitly 168 00:09:08,959 --> 00:09:11,039 Like a lot of Irish people at the time, 169 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,719 it was based on relationships. 170 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,759 It was based on trust. It was based on a point of contact. 171 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,799 I suppose maybe 20 or 30 or 40 years before that, 172 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,800 if you were a small town business person in Ireland, 173 00:09:22,239 --> 00:09:23,999 if the bank manager came to you and said, 174 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,759 you should invest in this product, 175 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,800 that's what you did because you trusted a bank manager. 176 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:32,359 1980s, 1990s, there was a lot of big institutions 177 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,359 that would have an investment in pension management. 178 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,719 The economy was becoming buoyant and probably thought, 179 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:37,918 Why am I working here? 180 00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:40,638 Or why am I giving two-thirds of this away when, theoretically, 181 00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:42,759 I could set up my own shop, keep it for myself, 182 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,439 and build out a business that's going to be worth 183 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:45,598 something down the line? 184 00:09:45,599 --> 00:09:50,519 Harry was great fun, very good sense of humour, short fuse. 185 00:09:50,639 --> 00:09:52,239 When he exploded, he exploded. 186 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,760 He had a bit of the small man syndrome. 187 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,720 What he didn't have in stature, he made up for in taxation 188 00:09:59,919 --> 00:10:03,679 expertise, running into investment expertise, 189 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:05,080 and arrogance. 190 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:06,719 TAPE: Hi, Harry Cassidy 191 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,000 from Custom House Capital Limited with another thought for the day. 192 00:10:10,239 --> 00:10:13,759 Did you know that Donald Trump is worth around $2. 6 billion, 193 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,439 and that if you laid his money 194 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,359 in dollar bills end-to-end, it would stretch all the way 195 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,039 to the moon with a bit to spare. 196 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,719 So what does this have to do with Custom House Capital Limited? 197 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,359 Well, chances are you feel your pension fund 198 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,278 wouldn't even stretch into the middle of next week, 199 00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:30,639 which is why it would be a rather good idea to call us today. 200 00:10:30,839 --> 00:10:33,278 Custom House Capital Limited is regulated by the financial 201 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:35,278 regulator under Section 10 of the Investment 202 00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:37,000 Intermediaries Act, 1995. 203 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,480 Because I'd obviously dealt with him in Guinness Mahon, 204 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,199 they thought Harry is the man. 205 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,079 So they sent their money forward to Dublin with the intention 206 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:45,999 of buying a house here or building a house. 207 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,440 So she trusted him implicitly. 208 00:10:47,919 --> 00:10:51,039 They had strong brands and relationships coming 209 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,119 from Guinness and Mahon and a few other institutions. 210 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,878 So they came together as John Mulholland, 211 00:10:55,879 --> 00:10:57,638 who was a non-executive director and a chairman, 212 00:10:57,639 --> 00:10:59,479 Harry Cassie as the CEO, 213 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:00,999 and a few people they brought with them 214 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,278 on an executive level as well. 215 00:11:02,279 --> 00:11:03,638 So for the first few years, they were successful, 216 00:11:03,639 --> 00:11:05,799 but it was hard not to be successful if you were a stable 217 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:06,958 enough business during that period of time 218 00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:08,719 because there was a lot of money and cash 219 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,720 coming into the economy. 220 00:11:16,919 --> 00:11:18,519 The Custom House Capital Investigation 221 00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:22,598 was certainly one of the most complex investigations ever 222 00:11:22,599 --> 00:11:25,160 undertaken by the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau. 223 00:11:25,599 --> 00:11:27,799 I think ultimately, 100 people came forward 224 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:29,278 and actually made statements. 225 00:11:29,279 --> 00:11:33,479 And then you have to involve every aspect of their investment 226 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:34,838 with that particular firm. 227 00:11:34,839 --> 00:11:36,519 How it was handled, how it was organised, 228 00:11:36,919 --> 00:11:40,039 and the messaging they received from Customs House 229 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:41,119 Capital and staff. 230 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:42,919 A lot of victims didn't come forward. 231 00:11:43,239 --> 00:11:46,959 But in fraud investigations in particular, it's not unusual 232 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,238 for victims to not come forward. 233 00:11:49,239 --> 00:11:52,199 Victims sometimes feel ashamed. They're embarrassed. 234 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,040 They don't want their business known. 235 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,359 It took 12 years from the point of when it officially stopped 236 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,720 for people to go to jail. INTERVIEWER: Why was that? 237 00:11:59,879 --> 00:12:01,759 Because it took so long to unravel 238 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,639 the complexity of what they did. 239 00:12:03,959 --> 00:12:06,278 There was so much data, electronic data, 240 00:12:06,279 --> 00:12:07,318 retrieved as part 241 00:12:07,319 --> 00:12:10,400 of that investigation on servers and on different computers, 242 00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:13,999 and it requires a particular data processing that was not 243 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,959 available to GNE/CB at that time. 244 00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:19,599 And for that reason, the case was put on hold pending 245 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,719 the receipt of that report. 246 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:26,198 It wasn't people of extreme wealth from a lot of the people we spoke 247 00:12:26,199 --> 00:12:27,760 to throughout the investigation. 248 00:12:27,959 --> 00:12:31,399 They'd lost a very modest amount of money that they thought they 249 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,199 could use for later in their life, and it was the absolute stress 250 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,319 that people were put under as a result of this. 251 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,400 We started contributing to pension in the mid '90s. 252 00:12:48,879 --> 00:12:52,198 By 2006, the business was going really well here. 253 00:12:52,199 --> 00:12:54,198 And of course, when you're self-employed and you 254 00:12:54,199 --> 00:12:57,119 have any relationship with any insurance company of any kind, 255 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,439 they're always knocking on the door. 256 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,399 One day they knocked on the door and said, 257 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:02,959 you have some cash in your pension. 258 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,318 Why don't you buy a pension property? 259 00:13:05,319 --> 00:13:07,039 Because Charlie McCreevy has changed the rules. 260 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,040 You can put any asset you want into your pension. 261 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:10,480 Why don't you do this? 262 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,719 I did get a pension off, in computer type in Merrion Square. 263 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,400 Pat, the boss, he put me onto the pension scheme. 264 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,599 He retired, so he was shutting it down. 265 00:13:24,239 --> 00:13:26,199 49,200. 266 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,479 When I set up my own business back in the '80s, 267 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,878 it was fairly successful, fairly quickly. 268 00:13:33,879 --> 00:13:38,278 Then eventually, we had been introduced to the idea 269 00:13:38,279 --> 00:13:42,318 of selling up a personal pension, and that would have 270 00:13:42,319 --> 00:13:44,239 led me to Canada life. 271 00:13:44,599 --> 00:13:48,558 Over a number of decades, we had saved something 272 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,680 in the order of of 475,000. 273 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,518 And so Canada Life, who were our pension provider 274 00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:00,558 at the time, appointed a trustee for this property that we were 275 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,719 buying, and the trustee they were appointed were 276 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:03,720 Custom House Capital. 277 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:05,080 We never knew who they were. 278 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,199 We never heard of them before. 279 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,878 They start building relationships 280 00:14:08,879 --> 00:14:10,039 within the intermediary community, 281 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,120 the financial voice community, accountancy community, 282 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,999 the Canada Lifes of the world, and start bringing them to say, 283 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,399 Well, if you introduce a client to this, we'll pay you 284 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,559 a commission, a fee, whatever it's going to be, 285 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,439 and that'll be part of the portfolio that 286 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,679 you'll have with them. But they would still be the client 287 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,558 of the Canada Life agent at the time, 288 00:14:26,559 --> 00:14:28,359 and it would have been a product they were investing. 289 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,598 So they wouldn't have been a Custom House Capital client, 290 00:14:30,599 --> 00:14:32,238 per se, but parallel to that, 291 00:14:32,239 --> 00:14:33,679 Custom House Capital were bringing their own clients 292 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,159 directly. 293 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,958 Joe came in and he told me that he had an investment that he 294 00:14:37,959 --> 00:14:40,399 thought I might be interested in. He said, this one is really good. 295 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,638 I would recommend that you join. 296 00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:44,958 He said, in fact, I'm in it myself. You know what I mean? 297 00:14:44,959 --> 00:14:49,000 He says, now, lots of my friends have gotten involved in the SSIAs, 298 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,000 and I was too cautious to get involved. 299 00:14:54,199 --> 00:14:58,760 The broker, he assured us that Custom House Capital 300 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,039 were the top people, and I was brought down, introduced to them. 301 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,559 It was all very impressive stuff. 302 00:15:04,959 --> 00:15:07,039 Met John Mulholland in particular, 303 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,519 never met Harry Cassidy. 304 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,198 And that was it, really. There was nothing more to it. 305 00:15:12,199 --> 00:15:16,760 You just signed this and we look after everything else. 306 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,439 AD: Custom House Capital Limited is regulated by the financial 307 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,439 regulator under Section 10 of the Investment 308 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,159 Intermediaries Act, 1995. 309 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,080 Authorised, regulated, central bank. 310 00:15:26,839 --> 00:15:29,918 Why would you suspect that there was anything 311 00:15:29,919 --> 00:15:31,879 untoward here at all? 312 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:43,679 So CHC's basic fundraising model for themselves as a corporate 313 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,639 entity was based primarily on a 5% upfront commission 314 00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:51,359 on any money invested with them. 315 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,680 So if you invested 100,000, they would take 5,000 as commission. 316 00:15:55,839 --> 00:15:58,720 That's a pretty aggressive, juicy commission. 317 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:05,518 But it allowed CHC then offer very extravagant junkets 318 00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:07,919 and incentives to try to get money in. 319 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,598 And then on top of that, 320 00:16:09,599 --> 00:16:10,958 they were getting commission on the 321 00:16:10,959 --> 00:16:12,838 monies invested in the property. 322 00:16:12,839 --> 00:16:14,999 WOMAN: They were good at bringing clients on board. 323 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,959 They recognised this within each other. 324 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,959 They both like to go off and play golf together. 325 00:16:20,199 --> 00:16:22,440 And John had a place down in Mount Juliet. 326 00:16:22,839 --> 00:16:24,599 It was the ultimate junket. 327 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,518 And it was part of the era at the time, that you had 328 00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:30,080 to look after your clients. 329 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,558 There was games of golf, there was dinners, 330 00:16:32,559 --> 00:16:36,080 there was nights out, there was social gatherings between 331 00:16:36,279 --> 00:16:41,318 John Mulholland and his wife, and my mother and my father as 332 00:16:41,319 --> 00:16:45,598 well, who obviously would listen intently to the advice that John 333 00:16:45,599 --> 00:16:49,319 would give and trusted him implicitly on whatever he might 334 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:51,680 suggest they should do and what products they should 335 00:16:52,239 --> 00:16:53,559 invest into as such. 336 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,679 The Custom House Capital Prime Property Fund 337 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,120 number 2 has just been launched. 338 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,400 {\an8}What benefits exactly does that offer to investors? 339 00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:05,198 {\an8}As with the CHC Prime Property Fund, one, it offers investors 340 00:17:05,199 --> 00:17:08,239 diversification and the same great range of benefits. 341 00:17:08,519 --> 00:17:12,598 They love to have that image of, look at us, we're successful. 342 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:15,319 Suave. 343 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,239 Loved himself, loved the man about town image. 344 00:17:20,959 --> 00:17:23,358 I remember my dad saying to me that they had bought this premise 345 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,597 on Merrion Square, this big Georgian double fronted 346 00:17:26,598 --> 00:17:29,999 premise, high ceilings and antique furniture, and that 347 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,119 where was all this money obviously coming from. 348 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:35,519 Surely the fees weren't that good to obviously create that level of 349 00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:38,079 investment in a business premise. 350 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,160 The high upfront fee couldn't have happened 351 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,239 without the expectation of very high investment returns, 352 00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:48,919 and they couldn't have realistically been offered 353 00:17:49,239 --> 00:17:51,720 at that time on anything other than property assets, 354 00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:56,160 which had had a very long period of sustained buildups. 355 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,080 And in an environment where asset values are rising 356 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,760 by between 15 and 20 %. 357 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:05,958 My instinct is less to worry about the 358 00:18:05,959 --> 00:18:07,679 size of the 5% commission than 359 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,720 to say, hurry up and get the money committed. 360 00:18:09,959 --> 00:18:12,198 Don't leave me out of the race. 361 00:18:12,199 --> 00:18:15,479 I think it would be safe to say between pre-retirement 362 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,198 and post-retirement, the value of the funds was 363 00:18:18,199 --> 00:18:21,239 definitely over a million, at one point 1.2, 1.5 million. 364 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,598 But it fuels the bubble, and it reinforces the bubble, 365 00:18:24,599 --> 00:18:27,719 and it reinforces the danger of the bubble, because now we've 366 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,480 got a bunch of investors who have used borrowings to get in here, 367 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,720 and if the asset value drops, the risk that they 368 00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:39,239 have negative equity inflicted on them suddenly rises. 369 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:46,079 They started sending me updates from CHC, which, strange enough, 370 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,599 made me feel more secure. 371 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:55,080 Over two years, the years 2006, 2007, I put in what was 372 00:18:55,239 --> 00:18:58,400 a high five-figure sum. 373 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,679 Here we are in 2025, 374 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,760 and I have never seen one cent of that money. 375 00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:21,039 This is the first ever detailed breakdown of the Irish mortgage 376 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,198 market, and it shows a surprisingly strong 377 00:19:23,199 --> 00:19:24,480 level of activity. 378 00:19:24,919 --> 00:19:27,238 If you go to a party on a Saturday night, 379 00:19:27,239 --> 00:19:28,838 the party starts at 10 o clock. 380 00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:32,598 At one in the morning, you could justifiably wander around 381 00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:35,719 the party handing out alcohol awareness leaflets, 382 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,080 but nobody's going to thank you for it. 383 00:19:38,279 --> 00:19:41,399 And if you're in bubble lift-off mode, 384 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,680 people do not want to hear the warnings. 385 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,319 Germany's decentralised property market is booming. 386 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,839 Through our association with Berendes and Partners, 387 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,039 we identified the potential of the German commercial property 388 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,759 market over two years ago. 389 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,318 It was good marketing to say, We're not going to put all of our 390 00:20:01,319 --> 00:20:04,279 eggs into the Irish property market basket. 391 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,519 We're going to spread them across Europe. 392 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,800 Just one kilometre from Hamburg City, 393 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,559 on Hyden Camps vague, our award- high specification office. 394 00:20:14,879 --> 00:20:19,000 Before completion, a large number of renowned- Colorado. 395 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,838 What type of investors are you looking for? 396 00:20:21,839 --> 00:20:23,800 Are you looking for individual investors? 397 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:25,958 And perhaps a range of pension funds. 398 00:20:25,959 --> 00:20:28,760 It's open to all types of investments, private clients, 399 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,318 pension funds, approved retirement funds 400 00:20:31,319 --> 00:20:32,440 and even company money. 401 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,879 The theory was they bought a building. 402 00:20:35,199 --> 00:20:38,878 They used your funds as payment for the building. 403 00:20:38,879 --> 00:20:40,918 They took a mortgage for the rest of it. 404 00:20:40,919 --> 00:20:42,519 It was paid back over seven years. 405 00:20:42,639 --> 00:20:44,318 And then technically, after the seven years, 406 00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:46,638 they sold the building. And when our profit was made, 407 00:20:46,639 --> 00:20:49,800 was distributed back through the pensions then, pro-rata. 408 00:20:51,239 --> 00:20:53,400 It was 10. 409 00:20:55,639 --> 00:20:58,720 680,000 when it was transferred as far as I'm aware. 410 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,679 Instead of sticking with what they knew 411 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,958 and which they had a good history with, 412 00:21:04,959 --> 00:21:08,958 they decided, we can, I don't know, conquer the world 413 00:21:08,959 --> 00:21:10,759 or whatever they were thinking. I don't know. 414 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,238 But like setting up the fund to buy a shopping centre 415 00:21:14,239 --> 00:21:15,519 in Munich. 416 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,278 The pair of them, and there would have been a pair 417 00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:22,959 of them in it, whole apartment blocks in Spain, 418 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:24,599 wanted bigger and better. 419 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,400 Statements were issued. 420 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,199 They'd come in the post. 421 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,638 Once a year, my dad would meet with John Mulholland. 422 00:21:30,639 --> 00:21:33,198 It would be a semi-formal review. 423 00:21:33,199 --> 00:21:36,198 Every couple of months, we would get a statement for each 424 00:21:36,199 --> 00:21:37,680 person who was in the pension. 425 00:21:41,199 --> 00:21:42,319 Everything is fine. 426 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,799 Don't worry about it. Your dad's investments are secure. 427 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,238 He had lots of high-profile established business people 428 00:21:51,239 --> 00:21:53,878 that were obviously investing in CHC products. 429 00:21:53,879 --> 00:21:56,479 So what's good for the goose is good for the gander 430 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:57,679 in some respect. 431 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,679 REPORTER: The jaw-dropping slide in Irish bank shares today is 432 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,559 unprecedented for recent times. 433 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,159 It was Warren Buffett who said that it's only when the tide goes 434 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,239 out that we get to see who's been swimming naked. 435 00:22:12,279 --> 00:22:18,639 And the global property rise, that peaked 2007, 2008. 436 00:22:19,879 --> 00:22:24,439 And because so many people had borrowed money to take part 437 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,359 in this, financial leverage worked against people 438 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:28,878 on the way down. 439 00:22:28,879 --> 00:22:32,638 And that turned a lot of people into negative equity positions. 440 00:22:32,639 --> 00:22:35,719 And then whoever had lent to them had to foreclose on them. 441 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,639 The fear is the cancer has spread to the heart of European banking. 442 00:22:39,879 --> 00:22:42,079 Anybody with a bit of insider knowledge knew the writing was 443 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,999 on the wall, and taking clients' money 444 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,319 in at that stage would have been a problem. 445 00:22:47,199 --> 00:22:51,559 He came and had this investment proposal, 446 00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:55,399 and that's what the Destiny 119 Property Fund 447 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,720 was presented to us. 448 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,159 And he asked us if we were interested in using some of the 449 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,639 cash that was still in our pension. 450 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,958 They were looking for more money 451 00:23:03,959 --> 00:23:05,479 than we were prepared to put in. 452 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,518 They wanted 50,000 from each of us, 453 00:23:07,519 --> 00:23:08,680 myself and my husband, both. 454 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,759 So we got receipts from Canada Life for the 25,000 455 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:13,919 that was paid into this fund. 456 00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:19,278 They were selling it, and everybody was told 457 00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:20,399 something different. 458 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,639 I mean, one gentleman, he was told the minimum 459 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,958 for that fund was 350,000, and that's what he put into it. 460 00:23:26,959 --> 00:23:30,080 Then there was a group of people, and they had a company pension, 461 00:23:30,239 --> 00:23:33,878 and each of them individually put in money, but all of them thought 462 00:23:33,879 --> 00:23:36,638 they were dealing with something that Canada Life 463 00:23:36,639 --> 00:23:39,080 itself was guaranteeing and selling. 464 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,918 Other pension people who are in this game many years have told 465 00:23:42,919 --> 00:23:46,878 me, we would never advise people of your age to move your 466 00:23:46,879 --> 00:23:48,599 pension at that stage. You were too old. 467 00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:54,160 Starting in '08 and onwards into '09 or '10 or '11, 468 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,360 CHC suppose a property diversification 469 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,959 expeditions to Italy, Germany, France, wherever. 470 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,278 They were now losing money, even though Harry Cassidy wish 471 00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:10,000 to present to the outside world a picture everything is well. 472 00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:14,039 And it must have been that which spurred him to take 473 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,879 money from healthy funds to prop up unhealthy funds. 474 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,159 Custom House Capital did not have the permission to move client 475 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,238 monies into different funds or different products without 476 00:24:24,239 --> 00:24:25,519 their consent or instruction. 477 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,760 That's written instruction to do that. 478 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:30,400 Yes. 479 00:24:30,879 --> 00:24:35,119 And spinning plates in the air and running from one plate 480 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,480 to the other to keep it spinning. 481 00:24:37,639 --> 00:24:41,759 He may have thought at the time that the drop in property values 482 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,599 being experienced in '07 and '08 would reverse themselves. 483 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:51,079 And that he was doing his investors a favour by keeping 484 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,319 the show on the road. 485 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:55,039 I think there was one or two meetings I was definitely 486 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,838 at in the boardroom in the front of the building, 487 00:24:56,839 --> 00:24:58,120 Overlooking Merrion Square. 488 00:24:58,599 --> 00:25:02,679 We were going on what was printed on the reports in relation 489 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,598 to the true value that was obviously there. 490 00:25:04,599 --> 00:25:05,839 He was effectively stealing. 491 00:25:06,239 --> 00:25:09,999 The second problem we had was that the drop in property values 492 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,719 continued and further exposed the financial fraud that lay 493 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,279 at the heart of what he was doing. 494 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,238 What we have here is the original servers from Custom House Capital. 495 00:25:26,239 --> 00:25:28,278 These servers were seized by Gardaí 496 00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:30,199 in 2011 under a court order. 497 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,479 They contained, obviously, a huge amount of information 498 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:33,879 relevant to our investigation. 499 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,278 Because of the volume of data and the multiplicity 500 00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:40,119 of the victims, that led to a decision that we 501 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,679 needed to look for external support 502 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,238 using a data analysis tool that was 503 00:25:45,239 --> 00:25:47,400 not available to GNECB at that time. 504 00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:51,238 And so the report that we got is around 2020 or 2021. 505 00:25:51,239 --> 00:25:53,439 It can be quite daunting at the start when you look 506 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,399 at terabytes of information, you go, 507 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,918 My God, how are we going to make sense of this? 508 00:25:56,919 --> 00:25:59,359 But you have to come up with a process as an investigation 509 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,278 team on what we're going to do, how we're going to catalog 510 00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:03,918 evidence, how we're going to identify evidence. 511 00:26:03,919 --> 00:26:06,680 Each individual member of the team reviewed a report, 512 00:26:06,919 --> 00:26:09,198 and we had a meeting that went on for about three hours. 513 00:26:09,199 --> 00:26:11,598 As we had the meeting, we would look at some 514 00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:13,959 of the evidence that we had available, some of the data. 515 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,959 Custom House Capital used a system called Unity. 516 00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:20,919 And what essentially was, it was a system that was a ledger 517 00:26:21,199 --> 00:26:24,040 that they could keep track of where investors' money was. 518 00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:28,720 We were also able to reconstruct the email server and we could see 519 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,159 what people were saying to each other in around the the time 520 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,399 that this was going on. The approach that was taken 521 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,079 at the beginning is that we look at one injured party, 522 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,559 look what happened to their money, 523 00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:41,120 and treat that one transaction as a fraud or a theft. 524 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,598 But when we actually realised that there was simply going to be 525 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,558 too many transactions to do that in Custom House Capital, 526 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:50,838 it would have been thousands of transactions. 527 00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:53,199 That's when the focus turned to the email traffic. 528 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,199 Who was speaking to who, and who was in charge, 529 00:26:57,319 --> 00:26:59,519 and what role did each person play? 530 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,079 There was people involved that were doing certain things 531 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,439 that they probably shouldn't have been, 532 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,480 but they might not have been aware of the greater picture. 533 00:27:05,639 --> 00:27:07,439 But certainly the heads of CHC 534 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,119 knew exactly what was going on, and 535 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:10,839 that was evident from the emails. 536 00:27:10,959 --> 00:27:13,759 At the end of that meeting, we decided that we were going 537 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,679 to investigate it as a conspiracy 538 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,518 among the senior management rather 539 00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:20,559 than individual deceptions of 73 individuals. 540 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,360 The whole focus of the case changed thereafter. 541 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,919 So before even we talk about how money was lost. 542 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,879 The foundations were quite shaken how they were managed as well, 543 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,479 because the regulation regime in 2007, when this all started 544 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,518 to happen, wasn't as strong as it is now. 545 00:27:40,519 --> 00:27:43,040 But at that time, it was like the Wild West. 546 00:27:43,319 --> 00:27:47,918 In the regulator's checks in 2007, 547 00:27:47,919 --> 00:27:50,639 four years before this blew public, 548 00:27:50,879 --> 00:27:55,918 four million of differences between what some accounts said 549 00:27:55,919 --> 00:27:58,879 were in them and what was actually in them were identified. 550 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,839 It should have been absolutely glass clear to the auditors 551 00:28:02,199 --> 00:28:03,879 that these records were in a mess. 552 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,079 My husband is a photographer, and he went to a lot of social events. 553 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,838 He photographed a lot of prize givings at various fancy 554 00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:14,279 golf clubs and things like that. 555 00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:18,000 He met one of the directors who subsequently was jailed, 556 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,760 and he knew that we had cash in our pension. 557 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,440 Now, Barry didn't know that we had cash in our pension, but this guy 558 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:26,599 knew that we had cash in our pension. 559 00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:29,638 And then eventually, we were approached by somebody 560 00:28:29,639 --> 00:28:32,760 acting on behalf of Custom House Capital through Canada Life. 561 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,079 They were desperate to get money in, and I don't think they were 562 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,639 able to get enough money from dealing with direct clients. 563 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:54,999 I suppose at the start 564 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,878 of the investigation, we have to figure out who's 565 00:28:57,879 --> 00:29:00,519 involved, who's a suspect, who's a staff member. 566 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,278 So we have to get an overall picture of the inner workings 567 00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:07,238 of Custom House Capital, but we could tell from the outset 568 00:29:07,239 --> 00:29:11,160 that the main people involved appeared to be Harry Cassidy, 569 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,759 John White, John Mulholland, and Paul Lavery also held a key 570 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,120 role as the financial controller within the company. 571 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:21,559 When we look at the actual scheme of what was going on, 572 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,679 it was essentially where clients would be given valuation reports. 573 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,399 The Destiny Equity Fund had 32 million in it at one stage. 574 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,999 What these valuation reports would What we say to the client is 575 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,238 that this is how your money is performing, 576 00:29:34,239 --> 00:29:35,999 this is where your funds are. 577 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,359 When CHC started to chase, they started cashing the equity 578 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,598 fund without the client's consent or knowledge, 579 00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:44,440 moving this cash across here. 580 00:29:44,639 --> 00:29:47,439 Every couple of months, we would get a statement for each 581 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,719 person who is in the pension. 582 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,159 I was getting an update from Canada Life, 583 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,080 which is the most peculiar thing. 584 00:29:53,239 --> 00:29:55,958 So this Valovis bond here was moved out 585 00:29:55,959 --> 00:29:57,079 into what's called a special 586 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,039 purpose vehicle, an SBV, and this could have been 587 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,919 for a property in Germany. 588 00:30:02,319 --> 00:30:06,719 Their funds had to be removed from what we could see were 589 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,319 property funds in Europe. 590 00:30:08,639 --> 00:30:11,679 The funds were then placed in the correct place where 591 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,598 the investor thought they should have been. 592 00:30:13,599 --> 00:30:16,480 And once they had done that, they would run the valuation report. 593 00:30:17,239 --> 00:30:20,639 Paul Lavery would calculate fictitious interest, 594 00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:23,439 which would also be included on the valuation report 595 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:24,559 that went to the investor. 596 00:30:24,879 --> 00:30:27,799 So the investor would get their valuation report and be happy 597 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,518 and confident that my money's performing well. 598 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:34,079 Then falsified assets because none of the money is where 599 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,000 it should have been in cash or in equities. 600 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,878 And the investor would obviously have absolutely no knowledge 601 00:30:38,879 --> 00:30:40,680 of this whatsoever. 602 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,839 There's so many people involved in the company. 603 00:30:49,959 --> 00:30:52,598 How do you hide something on this level? 604 00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:53,599 How do you hide it? 605 00:30:53,959 --> 00:30:56,839 And what we believe is that the pop-up system on 606 00:30:57,279 --> 00:31:01,599 the internal CHC computer was the way the fraud was concealed. 607 00:31:01,839 --> 00:31:04,999 So I'm just looking at one particular note here. 608 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,878 When you type the client's name in, it will say, 609 00:31:07,879 --> 00:31:11,720 please contact Harry or Paul before issuing any valuations. 610 00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:14,439 That raises our suspicion of surely 611 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,040 if an investor called CHC, 612 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,518 they can be advised of their account status without having 613 00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:24,079 to go to the head of the company. There's a note on it. 614 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,720 Client should not be in QIF II to investment. 615 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,999 These need to be backed out to run a valuation as per PL. 616 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,679 Well, which we believe is Paul Lavery, and he will 617 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,480 calculate what interest is due. 618 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,680 As we were going through the email traffic, we can see 619 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,239 a reoccurring phrases, for want of a better word, 620 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,199 and one of them was the term needs to be backed out. 621 00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:48,679 So we could search that term on the email servers 622 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:49,879 looking for backed out. 623 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,638 And what we did discover was 624 00:31:51,639 --> 00:31:53,719 it was instructions being given to back 625 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,918 clients out so they could run reports to deceive the clients. 626 00:31:56,919 --> 00:31:58,999 And once that was done, the money was returned. 627 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,399 But there was another example of an an email, 628 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,719 Can you do your magic on this account as the client is showing 629 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,080 an investment in property? 630 00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:08,318 Client is showing an investment in property. 631 00:32:08,319 --> 00:32:11,119 Why should a client be showing an investment in property unless 632 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,639 he's actually invested in property? 633 00:32:12,879 --> 00:32:16,759 So I think that one email alone kinda nearly set the tone of what 634 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,119 was actually going on at the time and the scale of what 635 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,559 was going on at the time. 636 00:32:26,919 --> 00:32:29,198 In 2009, the Central Bank sent 637 00:32:29,199 --> 00:32:34,238 an inspector into CHC, and they also restricted CHC from 638 00:32:34,239 --> 00:32:36,958 taking on new investment monies. 639 00:32:36,959 --> 00:32:39,558 In the investment world, that's the equivalent of a yellow card. 640 00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:41,278 Now, at that point in time, 641 00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:46,598 with 1.1 billion of assets under management, with 320 properties, 642 00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:49,838 with 40 funds, it was a complicated labyrinth 643 00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:52,439 of a business already. But only 20 % of that business 644 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,720 was actually the regulated side. 645 00:32:53,959 --> 00:32:56,278 So the central bank had no idea what was going on on 646 00:32:56,279 --> 00:32:57,479 the unregulated side. 647 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,080 And there's paper trail saying, that's not our problem. 648 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:07,518 And then they found that monies had been taken from fund 649 00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:09,120 A to prop up fund B. 650 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,238 So their solution was to try and sell that part of the business, 651 00:33:12,239 --> 00:33:14,119 Custom House Capital, the regulated entity, 652 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,958 to Appian Asset Management at one stage. 653 00:33:15,959 --> 00:33:17,239 That was a terrible solution. 654 00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:19,878 Appian Asset Management, in good faith, took the leap 655 00:33:19,879 --> 00:33:21,959 and did that in 2009, 2010. 656 00:33:22,239 --> 00:33:25,039 Definitely around the time that Appian were looking at buying 657 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,079 into CHC, I think John probably spoke 658 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,119 to my dad in relation to, we're looking to sell 659 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,518 the business on or there's going to be a change in ownership on it. 660 00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:36,039 It took one of the staff members actually just raise their hands 661 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,319 and say, there's an issue here. 662 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:39,680 Yeah, it was. 663 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,159 Angela Mahon, she took up a position 664 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,360 in Custom House Capital in 2007. 665 00:33:46,959 --> 00:33:49,359 And she was promoted in 2008 to 666 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,039 Head of Finance and Operations. 667 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,639 So she was at a more senior level. 668 00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:55,638 And she attended a meeting where there was a discussion 669 00:33:55,639 --> 00:33:59,518 on a shortfall in an investment in property 670 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:01,879 in Germany, something around around 11 million. 671 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,198 She realised that they didn't have the money 672 00:34:04,199 --> 00:34:05,679 to meet that shortfall. 673 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,999 And she learned that money was being taken from 674 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,800 clients' accounts. 675 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,917 She said that was wrong, and she contested that 676 00:34:11,918 --> 00:34:13,238 with the senior managers. 677 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,799 Basically, she was overrun by the senior 678 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,878 management team, and she decided that she couldn't 679 00:34:18,879 --> 00:34:21,159 put up with this, and she resigned her position. 680 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,800 She was asked by two of the senior managers not to resign. 681 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,838 One actually said, you're only a young person. 682 00:34:27,839 --> 00:34:31,479 You have to realise there's a commercial reality, 683 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,439 sometimes, and when that commercial reality is there, 684 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,760 integrity goes out the window. 685 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,718 She left in late 2008, and in 2009, she actually had 686 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,400 to contact CHC to get her P45. 687 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,800 And in that conversation with a senior manager, she asked 688 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:48,359 had the situation been resolved? 689 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:49,400 And it had not. 690 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,360 And at that point, she made a disclosure to the 691 00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:53,800 financial regulator. 692 00:34:54,279 --> 00:34:56,917 And then she cooperated fully with the Garda investigation 693 00:34:56,918 --> 00:34:58,319 in terms of, as a witness. 694 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,238 WOMAN: I was in the car, and I started reading it, 695 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:04,800 it possibly mentioned liquidation. 696 00:35:05,319 --> 00:35:07,440 And I just messaged Harry immediately. 697 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,480 Just, what the fuck? 698 00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:14,238 And he came back to all blown out of proportion, 699 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,400 nothing to be worried about whatsoever. 700 00:35:18,319 --> 00:35:21,360 And we now know, of course, that was the top of the slope. 701 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,918 Custom House Capital were one of these companies that were 702 00:35:32,919 --> 00:35:38,720 registered by the Pensions Board, and I invested my life savings, 703 00:35:38,879 --> 00:35:42,679 which goes back nearly 40 years of contributions for my pension. 704 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,479 My mom is elderly, when she was in her 80s, she decided it might 705 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,878 be a good idea to sell her house. 706 00:35:48,879 --> 00:35:50,918 My dad had died some years before. Say that, Pattie. 707 00:35:50,919 --> 00:35:52,199 John, good afternoon. 708 00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:53,638 How's the form, Joe? 709 00:35:53,639 --> 00:35:55,519 Are you a victim of Custom House Capital? 710 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,639 Absolutely. Up to the walls. 711 00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,759 But it was a huge scam from day one 712 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,039 because the financial statements 713 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,198 we used to get every six months were falsified. 714 00:36:04,199 --> 00:36:07,439 The shareholders, people who ran the firm were very well known. 715 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:08,999 They were recognised in the industry. 716 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,359 John Mulholland, John White, Harry Catsby. 717 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,959 Custom House Capital got over one billion from investors. 718 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,400 It's more white-collar crime in this country. 719 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,198 The first anybody really knew if this was in July, 720 00:36:19,199 --> 00:36:20,799 and at that point, there was a freeze, 721 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,838 and you could not take your money out. 722 00:36:22,839 --> 00:36:24,479 The ship had sunk at that point. 723 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,279 I was due to retire about the end of December. 724 00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:30,079 After that, I would have no funds whatsoever. 725 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,878 There's people who had every penny that they own 726 00:36:32,879 --> 00:36:35,799 in terms of what they provided for their old age 727 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,039 in that fund, and it's gone. What about you, Patrick? 728 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,559 Have you told your friends? 729 00:36:39,919 --> 00:36:41,519 No, I haven't. Why not? 730 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,040 It would be very embarrassing. 731 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,198 Well, I wouldn't be embarrassed about it. 732 00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:47,759 Patrick, you say you stand to lose your house 733 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,239 at the end of the month. Well, I could. 734 00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:52,558 We're sending people to jail for not taking a TV fee. 735 00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:55,119 And all these people are walking about scotfree 736 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,999 after throwing away millions on people, their pensions, 737 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,399 their life schemes, people are going to lose their house. 738 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:01,879 Out in the street, in your bare feet. 739 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,760 Scamers, the country is so corrupt. 740 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:09,480 Joe Duffy. 741 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:11,519 I was sitting listening to Joe Duffy. 742 00:37:11,879 --> 00:37:14,599 Once I established it was my investment, I kinda of... 743 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,638 knocked off Joe Duffy and got on the phone. 744 00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:21,278 And basically, he just told me, there's no money in this for you. 745 00:37:21,279 --> 00:37:22,519 You will get nothing back. 746 00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:24,480 And he was quite blunt about it. 747 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,680 Well, shortly after John White told my aunt, sent her a cheque. 748 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,239 There was no indication right up to that minute. 749 00:37:33,639 --> 00:37:35,878 But Christ, of all the people I know in life, 750 00:37:35,879 --> 00:37:37,799 how hard this money was earned. 751 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,119 Every day, grinding away, getting up at all hours 752 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,559 in the morning, and to lose it all just like that. 753 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,238 The regulator was writing letters to Custom House Capital 754 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,759 long before we ever transferred our pensions to them. 755 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,079 Had we known that, we would have never done it, 756 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,120 but we didn't know. 757 00:37:51,319 --> 00:37:53,518 There were so many people who didn't do their job properly, 758 00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:55,759 coming back to Central Bank and not actually managing 759 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,878 the business, and the Pensions Authority, 760 00:37:57,879 --> 00:38:00,759 did all these people fail at what they did? 761 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,999 There was an environment there that allowed these people to do 762 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,440 the things they were going to do. 763 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,558 So there was a number of arrests 764 00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:13,440 carried out as part of the investigation. 765 00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:16,918 Harry Cassidy, Paul Lavery, and John White were 766 00:38:16,919 --> 00:38:18,720 arrested in 2012, initially. 767 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,719 But again, there was a second round of arrests 768 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:23,159 conducted in 2019, 769 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,999 and that was obviously done at a time when the investigation 770 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,359 team had built up a lot more knowledge 771 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:29,479 of what actually went on. 772 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,119 REPORTER: The Dublin district Court heard that 773 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,119 the three men were all arrested in Dublin earlier today 774 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,399 by the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau. 775 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,599 John Mulholland was arrested in 2019. 776 00:38:38,879 --> 00:38:41,279 Paul Lavery was arrested again in 2019. 777 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,639 John White was also arrested again in 2019. 778 00:38:44,919 --> 00:38:48,680 We had sought to arrest Harry Cassidy again in 2019, 779 00:38:49,279 --> 00:38:52,838 but he wouldn't present to Gardaí voluntarily to be 780 00:38:52,839 --> 00:38:55,080 arrested on the advice of his solicitor. 781 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:57,599 He was in Germany at the time. 782 00:38:59,959 --> 00:39:02,399 I believe, possibly he was teaching English 783 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:03,400 as a foreign language. 784 00:39:03,919 --> 00:39:07,159 The court heard John Mulholland, John White, and Paul Lavery 785 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:08,999 made no reply when charged. 786 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,558 He was ultimately arrested by the German police. 787 00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:13,999 I believe he spent approximately about three months in custody 788 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,558 in Germany, but in the end, he decided to return back to this 789 00:39:18,559 --> 00:39:20,959 jurisdiction where he was met and ultimately charged. 790 00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:29,359 After it all collapsed with Custom House Capital 791 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,159 and the liquidators moved in, I used to receive 792 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,760 a letter every year. 793 00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:37,080 The balance was zero. 794 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:39,518 I don't know the story of how 795 00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:40,918 these properties ended up being sold 796 00:39:40,919 --> 00:39:42,838 the way they were for as little as they were. 797 00:39:42,839 --> 00:39:44,999 The buildings are still there. 798 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,559 The rent is still there. 799 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,799 So therefore, there's no reason why there should be a problem 800 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,278 with any of these things. 801 00:39:51,279 --> 00:39:53,518 But of course, with the times, that were in it, they 802 00:39:53,519 --> 00:39:54,679 become a fire sale. 803 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,599 Yeah, we got 550 euros each back. 804 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,199 That's it. 805 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:01,318 And for the regulated side, 806 00:40:01,319 --> 00:40:02,598 where people had money in regulated 807 00:40:02,599 --> 00:40:04,479 investments, there's a thing called 808 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,679 the Investor Compensation Fund. 809 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,479 The maximum that the Investor Compensation Fund 810 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,480 can pay out is 20,000 per investor. 811 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,599 And people may have had savings from an entire lifetime 812 00:40:17,279 --> 00:40:20,000 that had to look after them in their old age, 813 00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:24,599 parked in CHC, and to have that so sharply reduced 814 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,639 probably would unleash medical symptoms in some of them. 815 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,120 Her health was failing. 816 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,279 She'd been in hospital several times. 817 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:38,479 Now, my fear was we'd get the phone call 818 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,598 to say she's fallen, and that then I would get calls 819 00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:44,400 to say we need money to pay for her nursing home. 820 00:40:44,879 --> 00:40:47,760 Now, God forbid, had she ever rung me and said, Nick, 821 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,480 get on to Harry and tell him I need 10 grand or 20 grand. 822 00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:56,279 I would have had to say to her, Helga, there is no 10 or 20 grand. 823 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,119 Now, how could you say that to somebody 824 00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,599 who built their... 825 00:40:59,879 --> 00:41:02,198 This was her life, the fear that the phone would 826 00:41:02,199 --> 00:41:03,919 ring, because she was very unwell. 827 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,159 She was finally brought in the hospital during COVID, 828 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,559 and she died there alone, only the hospital staff. 829 00:41:08,839 --> 00:41:11,079 We rang, but they said, there's no point in coming over. 830 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,399 And that's what frightened me most in the last year. 831 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,160 And thankfully, I didn't have to tell her. 832 00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:17,479 I think it came to a stage where he wouldn't even 833 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,679 talk about it anymore because he knew he was... 834 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,040 Not much he could actually do about it. 835 00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:23,719 His health was failing. 836 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:24,959 He'd lost his wife. 837 00:41:25,199 --> 00:41:27,918 He was spending three days a week in hospital having dialysis. 838 00:41:27,919 --> 00:41:29,800 So his life had become quite insular. 839 00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:33,679 And with that then, I suppose everything began to just 840 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,278 cave in on top of him. 841 00:41:35,279 --> 00:41:39,239 I got a letter first, and I got invited to a meeting in town. 842 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,959 There were people there, and they were seriously aggrieved. 843 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,199 I think there was one guy had something like 50,000, 844 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:46,519 and he was furious. 845 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,399 And I'm sitting there with the cold realisation 846 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,919 that nearly 400 grand 847 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:56,119 on my part had been put by this broker into Custom House Capital 848 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,360 on one bet. 849 00:42:03,839 --> 00:42:06,159 Yes, which was a very awkward conversation. 850 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,878 And I had to explain to them as they were coming up 851 00:42:09,879 --> 00:42:12,360 to retirement that their pensions were gone. 852 00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:14,839 And in my opinion, they would I never see any of them. 853 00:42:18,199 --> 00:42:20,679 At the end of the day, the book stopped with me. 854 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,598 I made the decision. It was my decision 855 00:42:22,599 --> 00:42:23,680 as the trustee of the company. 856 00:42:24,919 --> 00:42:26,040 It was the wrong decision. 857 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,599 It was my decision, and I had to own it. 858 00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:39,519 I was assigned to cover the sentence hearing of the four men. 859 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,719 So the presiding Judge, Judge Orla Crowe, she was sitting 860 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,199 that day in courtroom 12. 861 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,159 I remember going up in the lift and walking in, 862 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,720 and it was just so busy. 863 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,400 There were so many people in that courtroom. 864 00:42:53,919 --> 00:42:57,039 It was a very sad day, to be honest, because there were 865 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,439 widows where the husband had died since, 866 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,399 but all their money had gone 867 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,919 into a pension fund through Custom House Capital and lost everything. 868 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,919 It seemed to take an eternity to get from the back of the court 869 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,598 up to the box and then to have the accused 870 00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:15,959 sitting right in front of you. 871 00:43:17,279 --> 00:43:21,638 But the Judge, I thought, handled it very well. 872 00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:25,598 And of course, the newspapers were all over it. 873 00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:30,000 So there were 197 victim impact statements handed into the court, 874 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,359 and four of them were read out by 875 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,278 affected investors in Custom House Captial 876 00:43:35,279 --> 00:43:38,439 or by family members of those investors 877 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:39,519 who had passed away. 878 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:41,720 I saw a woman cry. 879 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,558 She said, I put my pension fund in. 880 00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:47,359 And she said, it means I'll have to go back to work at 65. 881 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,958 She was crying, but nobody put their arms around 882 00:43:49,959 --> 00:43:52,360 her and said, it'll be all right. 883 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,159 It is only now that I approach retirement age 884 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,199 that the full impact of this theft is starting to manifest itself. 885 00:44:00,959 --> 00:44:03,479 In the past, I pushed it to the back of my mind, 886 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,800 but for the last few years, I cannot shake it off. 887 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,759 It causes me many sleepless nights nowadays, and I constantly 888 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,400 worry about my financial future. 889 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,238 With the world the way it is now, I have two adult children 890 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,278 still living at home, and I maybe could have helped them 891 00:44:18,279 --> 00:44:21,400 with a deposit on a house if this money had not been stolen. 892 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,199 I've lived my entire life in South Inner City, Dublin, 893 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,079 and in a broader sense, this crime has also compounded my 894 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,800 belief that there is a demonus in Irish society, 895 00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:36,319 which robbed me and my family of a more secure retirement. 896 00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:40,878 Having worked continuously for the last 45 years and never 897 00:44:40,879 --> 00:44:44,318 relying on the state for a single cent, I don't think that this 898 00:44:44,319 --> 00:44:45,680 was too much to aspire to. 899 00:44:52,319 --> 00:44:55,759 Now, there were four guys being sentenced. 900 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,559 They all had their own legal counsel, separately. 901 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,039 Each of them stood up and advocated for why their guy 902 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,159 shouldn't go to prison. 903 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,719 It was all like cats in a sack, just all fighting, 904 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,198 trying to be the one who doesn't go to prison or doesn't 905 00:45:09,199 --> 00:45:10,958 get the worst sentence. 906 00:45:10,959 --> 00:45:13,359 And the way they were talking about these guys, 907 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,559 it was like they were paragons of virtue. 908 00:45:15,959 --> 00:45:17,479 I turned around to Barry and said, 909 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,518 I'm going to start feeling sorry 910 00:45:18,519 --> 00:45:20,558 for them soon if they keep on going on like this. 911 00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:24,039 I said, are these guys talking about these men who have 912 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,639 defrauded all of these people? 913 00:45:25,919 --> 00:45:28,838 So Harry Cassidy and John Mulholland took 2.3 million out, 914 00:45:28,839 --> 00:45:30,040 discreetly out of company 915 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,720 in commissions directly to a Luxembourg bank account, 916 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,040 and a Tenerife property was bought for John Mulholland. 917 00:45:37,319 --> 00:45:39,518 So they were profiting during this period of time 918 00:45:39,519 --> 00:45:41,799 from 2007 to 2011, personally, as well 919 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,918 as drawing out salaries. 920 00:45:42,919 --> 00:45:47,439 Sixty years of his life working, putting away money to support 921 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,238 himself in the allotted years of his life 922 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,679 that he was going to be able to enjoy. 923 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,198 Then to see it all, the majority of it all wiped away 924 00:45:53,199 --> 00:45:54,760 was really frustrating for him. 925 00:45:54,879 --> 00:45:56,638 And one of them was trying to say that he was so 926 00:45:56,639 --> 00:45:58,799 much younger and all this kinda stuff, 927 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,238 and I was a bit led and all that. 928 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,519 And the judge was like, you're an adult. 929 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,080 Take responsibility. 930 00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:07,598 The Judge noticed in her sentencing remarks that the men, 931 00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:11,238 threw their guilty pleas, that meant that the state was saved 932 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,080 a very long and complex trial. 933 00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:16,120 REPORTER: The judge Judge said 67-year-old Harry Cassidy, 934 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,080 the co-founder and Chief Executive Officer of CHC, 935 00:46:19,279 --> 00:46:22,318 was in charge of the entire conspiracy and breached 936 00:46:22,319 --> 00:46:23,878 all trust placed in him. 937 00:46:23,879 --> 00:46:25,959 She sentenced him to seven years in jail. 938 00:46:26,279 --> 00:46:29,278 53-year-old John White, the Head of Private Clients, 939 00:46:29,279 --> 00:46:30,400 was given four years. 940 00:46:30,519 --> 00:46:34,119 Paul Lavery, who is 47, was Head of Finance and carried out 941 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,238 directions he knew were wrong, the Judge said, 942 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:37,919 jailing him for three years. 943 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,039 73-year-old John Mulholland, a Co-Founder and a non-executive 944 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,359 director, pleaded guilty to neglectfully 945 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,719 discharging his duties as a director and was 946 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:48,119 jailed for 12 months. 947 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,239 Judge Crowe said many of the victims felt shame, 948 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:52,958 but that was misplaced. 949 00:46:52,959 --> 00:46:55,238 She said they had been systematically deceived 950 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,119 in a sophisticated operation, 951 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,080 which went on for almost three years. 952 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,360 The most dramatic part of it, looking back now, 953 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,839 was when the guards came in to take them away to the cell. 954 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,760 A lesson there to the professions, that there is a price to be paid. 955 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,440 If they misappropriate people's funds. 956 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,399 I'm very happy that even when he does come out, he will 957 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:21,879 still be a convicted felon. 958 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,959 He's a criminal, and he will have done time. 959 00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:38,159 Thankfully, we still have our health and we have 960 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,559 a vibrant family. 961 00:47:39,879 --> 00:47:43,559 My wife still works, but I turned 74 this month. 962 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,760 It's difficult because we're reliant on the state pension 963 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,440 and then a few bits and pieces. 964 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,918 I suppose I took, and I still take, 965 00:47:53,919 --> 00:47:56,159 a philosophical approach to it all. 966 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,480 There's no point in me getting angry about it. 967 00:47:58,599 --> 00:48:01,919 I heard of people who borrowed money to put into that scheme, 968 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,040 and they're the people I really feel sorry for it. 969 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,440 You just move on. 970 00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:11,439 I think Irish people, they don't like talking about 971 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,399 misgivings or they don't like talking about being taken for a 972 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:15,720 fool or being taken for granted. 973 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,878 So there'll be a lot of people, I think, that will just 974 00:48:17,879 --> 00:48:18,999 take it to their grave. 975 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,039 And we brought her ashes up to Kilnadeema, 976 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,279 and she's buried beside her husband, with my godmother. 977 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,518 Lately, I've been starting to realise, 978 00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:31,879 not that it went bad, it was criminal. 979 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,440 It was an offence. People have gone to jail for it. 980 00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:37,680 Years after the collapse and the whole lot, 981 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,638 we actually worked in the building that they operated from, 982 00:48:41,639 --> 00:48:43,598 in Merrion Square. And I walked up to the door, 983 00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:45,479 there's, Custom House Capital looking at me. 984 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,558 They never took the plaque off the building at that stage. 985 00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:49,878 I think it's sad that anybody would think that 986 00:48:49,879 --> 00:48:51,439 they had done something wrong. 987 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,318 You're supposed to work hard 988 00:48:54,319 --> 00:48:56,198 and you earn a few bob and you set 989 00:48:56,199 --> 00:48:58,799 a few bob aside and you invest it somewhere 990 00:48:58,800 --> 00:48:59,918 so that it's going to grow. 991 00:48:59,919 --> 00:49:01,598 You will be able to provide for yourself, 992 00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:02,999 and you won't be depending on the state, 993 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,318 and you won't be depending on your kids, 994 00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:06,399 and you'll be able to afford all the things that you still 995 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,800 need to do when you're retired. 996 00:49:10,319 --> 00:49:12,479 That's what we're supposed to be able to look forward to in this 997 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:13,480 green and pleasant land. 998 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,080 ♪ 999 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,919 SUBTITLES: RTÉ, 2026.